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Why Big Ben Hates Sayid But Not Kate by taturner
(Comments: 22) 
Think back to season 3 when Bea Klugh gave Michael a list of names for him to bring back with him to act as a trade for his son, Walt. Those names just happened to be Jack, Kate, Hugo, and Sawyer. After being captured by Ben and the others, Ben treated them each differently. I will get to Sayid in a bit, but lets first review how Ben treated each of the ones on the list.
He allowed Kate to take a shower, and get cleaned up. He gave her a nice dress to wear, and he had a very "civilized" breakfast with her. He treated her well.
He treated Sawyer like an animal from the very beginning, and even convinced him that he had been implanted with a pacemaker that would cause his heart to explode if he got too excited. Ben was obviously exercising his power and control, albeit not physical control, over Sawyer.
He put Jack in a dark chamber, did not allow him to know where he was, or what was going on, and specifically would not interact with him himself. He had Juliet do all of the interactions instead. He would have nothing to do with Jack for quite sometime.
He let Hugo go. Apparently, Ben's purpose here was to have Hurley warn the other survivors not to come looking for them, but whatever the reason, the point is that he let Hurley go.
Now, lets think about Sayid. The majority of Ben's interaction with Sayid took place off the island, after they Oceanic 6 had been rescued, and after Ben had moved the island and landed in Tunisia.
Ben finds Sayid, mourning the recent loss of his wife, and, in his very quintessential way, convinces Sayid to avenge her death. Ben begins turning Sayid into a hitman, a hired killer, seeking the death of those on a "list," in order to "protect" his friends. This becomes Sayid's only mission in life, his only purpose. Then one day, Ben tells Sayid that his purpose is over. That there are no more names on the "list." Sayid is left not knowing what to do, and to begin where he started at his wife's funeral; only now he is so full of hatred and murder, that he is a changed man - depressed, sad, and ruined.
So, Ben ruins Sayid's life - on purpose.
Ben treats Kate with respect and what seems like thankfulness.
Ben treats Jack with deference.
Ben demonstrates control over Sawyer.
Ben releases Hugo.
Why does Ben do all of these things? Because they did all of these things to him when he was 12 years old!
Sayid shoots little Ben, changing him and his outlook forever. Ben never forgets Sayid, and always holds a grudge.
Kate tries to help little Ben when she finds out that he's been shot, and he remembers this kind treatment, and repays her with what kindness he can.
Jack won't have anything to do with helping little Ben, even though he probably will have an opportunity to help, and Ben will remember this deference showed to him by Jack.
Sawyer is the head of security, in control of everyone in Dharma, and Ben remembers this control that Sawyer had, and despises it and Sawyer for it, and decides to exercise his own method of control.
Little Ben always loved Hurley's pancakes and waffles, and recognized him as someone that was harmless and kind, and remembers this quality when he released him at the dock.
Ben remembers the survivors from his childhood when he is older because they were there when he was a kid. They were always there.
The survivors don't remember the island when they first crash because it is their future selves that go back to the 1970's.
The survivors have not changed the 1970's. They ARE the 1970's. They have CAUSED 1970's events on the island.
.... Yes this is a LONG theory and not just a question Theory by taturner
He allowed Kate to take a shower, and get cleaned up. He gave her a nice dress to wear, and he had a very "civilized" breakfast with her. He treated her well.
He treated Sawyer like an animal from the very beginning, and even convinced him that he had been implanted with a pacemaker that would cause his heart to explode if he got too excited. Ben was obviously exercising his power and control, albeit not physical control, over Sawyer.
He put Jack in a dark chamber, did not allow him to know where he was, or what was going on, and specifically would not interact with him himself. He had Juliet do all of the interactions instead. He would have nothing to do with Jack for quite sometime.
He let Hugo go. Apparently, Ben's purpose here was to have Hurley warn the other survivors not to come looking for them, but whatever the reason, the point is that he let Hurley go.
Now, lets think about Sayid. The majority of Ben's interaction with Sayid took place off the island, after they Oceanic 6 had been rescued, and after Ben had moved the island and landed in Tunisia.
Ben finds Sayid, mourning the recent loss of his wife, and, in his very quintessential way, convinces Sayid to avenge her death. Ben begins turning Sayid into a hitman, a hired killer, seeking the death of those on a "list," in order to "protect" his friends. This becomes Sayid's only mission in life, his only purpose. Then one day, Ben tells Sayid that his purpose is over. That there are no more names on the "list." Sayid is left not knowing what to do, and to begin where he started at his wife's funeral; only now he is so full of hatred and murder, that he is a changed man - depressed, sad, and ruined.
So, Ben ruins Sayid's life - on purpose.
Ben treats Kate with respect and what seems like thankfulness.
Ben treats Jack with deference.
Ben demonstrates control over Sawyer.
Ben releases Hugo.
Why does Ben do all of these things? Because they did all of these things to him when he was 12 years old!
Sayid shoots little Ben, changing him and his outlook forever. Ben never forgets Sayid, and always holds a grudge.
Kate tries to help little Ben when she finds out that he's been shot, and he remembers this kind treatment, and repays her with what kindness he can.
Jack won't have anything to do with helping little Ben, even though he probably will have an opportunity to help, and Ben will remember this deference showed to him by Jack.
Sawyer is the head of security, in control of everyone in Dharma, and Ben remembers this control that Sawyer had, and despises it and Sawyer for it, and decides to exercise his own method of control.
Little Ben always loved Hurley's pancakes and waffles, and recognized him as someone that was harmless and kind, and remembers this quality when he released him at the dock.
Ben remembers the survivors from his childhood when he is older because they were there when he was a kid. They were always there.
The survivors don't remember the island when they first crash because it is their future selves that go back to the 1970's.
The survivors have not changed the 1970's. They ARE the 1970's. They have CAUSED 1970's events on the island.
.... Yes this is a LONG theory and not just a question Theory by taturner
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Not bad actually... I am not quite sure how MUCH he remembers them, but even if it's so simple as that they REMIND him of these people from his past (not making the connection right away), it still would be enough to be subconscious.
As for Sayid.... something I slightly recall from the Ana Lucia episode: You never forget the man who shot you.
me like this theory
nice work
Then why are their "future selves" the same age as their 70s selves?
I don't disagree with this theory by any means, but I do sense a slight amount of spoiler information in here. Just sayin...
Um.. I think something that we would have to keep in mind... is that Young Ben thinks of Sayid as a hostile/native. Of course we have the "Whatever Happened, Happened" idea implanted to us but just can't help but think that Sayid could have only escalated what Ben is willing to do for.. himself in the end.
But ya, quite an interesting theory to think about.
CMR5 because if they were to crash on the island in 815 as 60 year olds and go through the events which take them back to the 70's they would be in their 60s there and end up not being able to do anything.
I love your theory...
I just don't get Big Ben's actions towards 815-Jack. I think he's being mysterious there... He's always had a cat and mouse thing going on with Jack. Perhaps in the 70s it was Jack who kept pestering Little Ben, trying to let him in on some things and then changing his mind...
Alan: FFS man, what part of "DO NO POST SPOILERS IN THIS SECTION OR YOU WILL BE BANNED " that is displayed at the top of EVERY page did you fail to understand?
I thought this post seemed a little spoilerish - i really liked it!
I actually scrolled up to make sure I wasnt on a spoiler page.
I mean really we don't know that Ben survived. I was thinking back to when Locke was checking out the bodies in the room and was told Ben was dead. Maybe that is just his meat and when he was killed in the 70's he ceased to live in the future.
The island being kind of off the grid could explain why his body was still there -
MidnightDraven said...
" they would be in their 60s there and end up not being able to do anything."
You obviously haven't met my 75 year old dad! :D
To taturner...
This is a GREAT theory. I guess we have yet to see how Jack and Kate treat young Ben. And I think an additional reason for Ben's treatment of Sawyer is because of jealousy. He loved Juliet and still does. I am guessing that Juliet tries to be kind to young Ben and Ben sees Sawyer as being in the way.
March: I add this line above EVERY comments box for a reason.
"If you have a problem, do NOT post it in the comments, email me here."
@bizzarefall
We are never told that Ben is dead. I think they would have mentioned that, but he only falls under the category of "the people who got hurt," as said by Caesar.
As for being killed in the 70's and ceasing to live in the future...well...that just doesn't make sense, as far as Lost has established it's "rules" of time travel.
Nothing that I wrote was a spoiler. It is called observation and theory. I don't know any spoilers and don't plan to write any out if I did. I'm sorry if my comment upset anyone. I'm just trying to add to that mass number of theories and comments on those theories.
It did not upset me,and sorry Dark-I don't want to over step my bounds but all that stuff about Ben,Jack,and Kate are all in the summery of the TV Guide.I mean...it's not really a spoiler.Anybody knows that some form another there gonna save Ben,it's like when ABC was running the promo for the finale in season four were Sawyer jumps outta the helicopter and everybody thought Sawyer was gonna die(Y'knew they were not gonna kill Sawyer off and their not gonna kill 12 year old Ben-it's a Diseny/Buena Vista show-not killing a kid on ABC),y'all know this already people...don't act like it's a shock what I'm saying.
..It's also like the three promos you always run the day before....all of them are shown in the first ten minutes of the show(which I don't know about you but those never really ruin anything for me) and then we have 35 more minutes of LOST greatness BABY!!!
the part about jack maybe not wanting to help save little ben makes sense on the fact that, if you recall, when ben and jack are talking about jack doing the surgery on ben, jack says, "you want me to save you?" or something to that affect and ben replies, "no, i want you to want to." if jack could have helped save ben in the 70's and didnt maybe ben was trying to make jack make up for it in 2004 one way or another. then again, if, in the 70's ben knew jack as a workman, he wouldnt know jack was actually a doctor in the 70's when he first met him. lol, does that make sense?
brilliant
I am with Ralph on this. Sorry but I know this like since they landed in the 70s. Everything was heading to this direction. And btw he treated Sawyer and Kate with the same respect but the difference was that she was a lady. And Ben is a gentleman. The other thing she treated Jack ok too. The most important line was: JACK, I WANT YOU TO WANT TO SAVE MY LIFE.
What does this line tell us. It tells us a lot. Especially now since we know that he is shot. There are two good doctors on the island. And one of them is not a surgeon. So that leaves us Jack who already saved bens life but this time something tells me he wont do it. Thus the line above in the future (season 3). He knew Jack decided not to in the 70s.
Thanks Monika.
For those who say my theory seems spoilerish, it's all based on the promo I saw after the episode this week, and the upcoming episode summary for next week, and my guesses as to what will happen. Thanks to all those who like the theory. It's the first one that has had such a good response!